Frans de Waal - Prosocial Primates: Empathy in Animals and Humans

The 13th Namahn interview proves that the human computer interaction discipline enjoys looking beyond its confine. Frans de Waal, the widely published Dutch-American biologist and primatologist, joins Joannes Vandermeulen to discuss why it is important for humans to understand animals. After all, humans are also animals and we share many social interactions and even technologies with our relatives in the animal kingdom. The things humans do are simpler than we think, and the things animals do are more complex than we think.

In his 2009 book, The Age of Empathy, de Waal shares some amazing examples of animal pro-social behavior, from helping and thanking for help delivered, over grief, to trust and reciprocity. All these behaviors require empathy. He argues that these findings refute the belief that empathy and morality are uniquely human or a cognitive process.

Humans also share an aptitude for technologies with other primates. However, human technologies have now progressed from sticks and stones to become communication tools. De Waal believes this evolution is no coincidence; it ties into fundamental human nature and our social needs, which he argues, are more ancient than any technology. However, they do not increase empathy; our challenge today is to empathize beyond the borders of our group in globalized and highly complex societies.

Download the interview (mp3, 15:46, 18MB, October 2011)

Currently writing a book on religion and morality, de Waal suggests that it is not difficult to understand why Judeo/Christian religions, which originated among desert dwelling nomadic tribes who only saw animals like goats, camels, and snakes, believe that humans are distinct from animals. In the East, where people saw monkeys and primates, religion has a totally different connection to animals. De Waal insists that all humans are tied together by morality and that morality is older than religion: humans simply put God in charge to handle this for us. Morality is part of an evolutionary process we share with other animals, and moral systems are not decided by rules.